Discussion:
Verizon FIOS - How to use CeroWRT directly with interactive TV
(too old to reply)
Frits Riep
2014-03-19 12:37:53 UTC
Permalink
I have a Verizon FIOS internet, and also use the interactive TV and phone
services using my WNDR-3800 with CeroWRT.



. I have a 75 Mb/s down / 25 Mb/s up residential service in
Lexington MA

. I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.

. To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV Coax in
order to control the settop box and send the video content from the internet
to the settop box.

. The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).

. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

. D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this mode
(lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX to the WAN
interface of the router which is useful if you only have COAX wiring in your
home and you want to locate your router in a different location from the ONT
Ethernet jack.

. You need one MoCA bridge to interconnect the Coax to the standard
twisted pair Lan connection on your router.

. The working topology is Verizon ONT Ethernet port to WAN interface
on CeroWRT router, Moca Bridge in one of the LAN interfaces.

. Verizon residential service provides one public IP via DHCP, and
this IP is bound to the MAC address of the router (which is also typical of
residential services of cable providers such as Comcast).

. To successfully connect the new router (and get a DHCP address),
you need to either clone the MAC address of the Verizon supplied router or
call Verizon and have them break the DHCP lease from their end.



I have successfully been running versions of CeroWRT for about six months,
and very much appreciate the great work to conquer Bufferbloat.



I have had no issues on the WNDR-3800 getting full throughput of up to 80
mb/s down, 30 mb/s up using speedtest.net (with speed throttling off. The
throughput and latency results are excellent when I set the speed throttling
to 75 down / 25 up, per speedtest.net, pingtest.net and
<http://netalyzr.icsi.berkeley.edu/index.html> ICSI Netalyzr even on
wireless. Running a ping test in command prompt also shows very low latency
even when running a full speedtest both up and down on both a wired or
wireless connection.



Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new stable in
the near future?



Thanks,



Frits Riep

Ekaru, LLC



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Today's Topics:



1. Problem with Verizon fios router (Ernesto Elias)

2. Re: Problem with Verizon fios router (Dave Taht)

3. Re: Problem with Verizon fios router (Stephen Hemminger)





----------------------------------------------------------------------



Message: 1

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:34:10 -0400

From: Ernesto Elias < <mailto:***@gmail.com>
***@gmail.com>

To: <mailto:cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net>
cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net

Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



Hello everyone I'm having trouble with the actiontec router supplied by
Verizon fios, since I have the bundle service of TV and Internet I need the
fios router to be able to watch on demand but I ran into a problem. It's
that when I made the ont box go Ethernet to be able to use my wndr3800
running cerowrt on it to reduce buffer bloat and so I plugged an Ethernet
cable to one of the Lan port of the wndr3800 to the WAN port of the
actiontec it would seem that the set top boxes don't get a signal and when I
click on the remote to check diagnostic it says that the external network is
down and we'll I have question is there anything I have to do special for
the actiontec to get Internet connection to the stb?

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Message: 2

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:43:05 -0700

From: Dave Taht < <mailto:***@gmail.com> ***@gmail.com>

To: Ernesto Elias < <mailto:***@gmail.com>
***@gmail.com>

Cc: " <mailto:cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net>
cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net"

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Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router

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The wan port of cero should be plugged into the the lan port of the
actiontec, not the reverse.



You probably want to configure the actiontec as a bridge in this instance if
it isn't already.



On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:34 PM, Ernesto Elias <
Hello everyone I'm having trouble with the actiontec router supplied
by Verizon fios, since I have the bundle service of TV and Internet I
need the fios router to be able to watch on demand but I ran into a
problem. It's that when I made the ont box go Ethernet to be able to
use my wndr3800 running cerowrt on it to reduce buffer bloat and so I
plugged an Ethernet cable to one of the Lan port of the wndr3800 to
the WAN port of the actiontec it would seem that the set top boxes
don't get a signal and when I click on the remote to check diagnostic
it says that the external network is down and we'll I have question is
there anything I have to do special for the actiontec to get Internet
connection to the stb?
_______________________________________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
<https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
--

Dave T?ht



Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
<http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html>
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html





------------------------------



Message: 3

Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:57:27 -0700

From: Stephen Hemminger < <mailto:***@networkplumber.org>
***@networkplumber.org>

To: Dave Taht < <mailto:***@gmail.com> ***@gmail.com>

Cc: Ernesto Elias < <mailto:***@gmail.com>
***@gmail.com>,

" <mailto:cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net>
cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net"

< <mailto:cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net>
cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net>

Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router

Message-ID: < <mailto:***@nehalam.linuxnetplumber.net>
***@nehalam.linuxnetplumber.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



It is rather complex, you have to make the FIOS router act as a double
bridge.

One bridge passes traffic from outside via COAX (ONT) to one RJ45 (CAT5) to
WDR3800 Other bridge passes traffic from another WDR3800 port back to coax
network to set top box



Does this help?

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*********************************************
Aristar
2014-03-19 13:26:09 UTC
Permalink
If your WNDR3800 is directly connected to the ONT with ethernet then
you only need to configure the actiontech in bridge mode and connect
an ethernet from a WNDR3800 LAN port to an actiontech LAN port (not
WAN), then it will act as an ethernet to coax bridge.

If you have only a coax network, then you'd need a double bridge like
Stephen mentioned. There's guides on dslreports to use a custom router
with FiOS.

However, getting caller ID on settop boxes and other features I
haven't been able to do yet, it requires some advanced port forwarding
or something.
Post by Frits Riep
I have a Verizon FIOS internet, and also use the interactive TV and phone
services using my WNDR-3800 with CeroWRT.
· I have a 75 Mb/s down / 25 Mb/s up residential service in
Lexington MA
· I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.
· To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV Coax in
order to control the settop box and send the video content from the internet
to the settop box.
· The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).
· http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
· D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this mode
(lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX to the WAN
interface of the router which is useful if you only have COAX wiring in your
home and you want to locate your router in a different location from the ONT
Ethernet jack.
· You need one MoCA bridge to interconnect the Coax to the standard
twisted pair Lan connection on your router.
· The working topology is Verizon ONT Ethernet port to WAN interface
on CeroWRT router, Moca Bridge in one of the LAN interfaces.
· Verizon residential service provides one public IP via DHCP, and
this IP is bound to the MAC address of the router (which is also typical of
residential services of cable providers such as Comcast).
· To successfully connect the new router (and get a DHCP address),
you need to either clone the MAC address of the Verizon supplied router or
call Verizon and have them break the DHCP lease from their end.
I have successfully been running versions of CeroWRT for about six months,
and very much appreciate the great work to conquer Bufferbloat.
I have had no issues on the WNDR-3800 getting full throughput of up to 80
mb/s down, 30 mb/s up using speedtest.net (with speed throttling off. The
throughput and latency results are excellent when I set the speed throttling
to 75 down / 25 up, per speedtest.net, pingtest.net and ICSI Netalyzr even
on wireless. Running a ping test in command prompt also shows very low
latency even when running a full speedtest both up and down on both a wired
or wireless connection.
Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new stable in
the near future?
Thanks,
Frits Riep
Ekaru, LLC
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Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 1:58 AM
Subject: Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 28, Issue 19
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1. Problem with Verizon fios router (Ernesto Elias)
2. Re: Problem with Verizon fios router (Dave Taht)
3. Re: Problem with Verizon fios router (Stephen Hemminger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 00:34:10 -0400
Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello everyone I'm having trouble with the actiontec router supplied by
Verizon fios, since I have the bundle service of TV and Internet I need the
fios router to be able to watch on demand but I ran into a problem. It's
that when I made the ont box go Ethernet to be able to use my wndr3800
running cerowrt on it to reduce buffer bloat and so I plugged an Ethernet
cable to one of the Lan port of the wndr3800 to the WAN port of the
actiontec it would seem that the set top boxes don't get a signal and when I
click on the remote to check diagnostic it says that the external network is
down and we'll I have question is there anything I have to do special for
the actiontec to get Internet connection to the stb?
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:43:05 -0700
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The wan port of cero should be plugged into the the lan port of the
actiontec, not the reverse.
You probably want to configure the actiontec as a bridge in this instance if
it isn't already.
Post by Frits Riep
Hello everyone I'm having trouble with the actiontec router supplied
by Verizon fios, since I have the bundle service of TV and Internet I
need the fios router to be able to watch on demand but I ran into a
problem. It's that when I made the ont box go Ethernet to be able to
use my wndr3800 running cerowrt on it to reduce buffer bloat and so I
plugged an Ethernet cable to one of the Lan port of the wndr3800 to
the WAN port of the actiontec it would seem that the set top boxes
don't get a signal and when I click on the remote to check diagnostic
it says that the external network is down and we'll I have question is
there anything I have to do special for the actiontec to get Internet
connection to the stb?
_______________________________________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
--
Dave T?ht
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problem with Verizon fios router
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It is rather complex, you have to make the FIOS router act as a double
bridge.
One bridge passes traffic from outside via COAX (ONT) to one RJ45 (CAT5) to
WDR3800 Other bridge passes traffic from another WDR3800 port back to coax
network to set top box
Does this help?
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Stephen Hemminger
2014-03-19 16:14:11 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014 09:26:09 -0400
Post by Aristar
If your WNDR3800 is directly connected to the ONT with ethernet then
you only need to configure the actiontech in bridge mode and connect
an ethernet from a WNDR3800 LAN port to an actiontech LAN port (not
WAN), then it will act as an ethernet to coax bridge.
If you have only a coax network, then you'd need a double bridge like
Stephen mentioned. There's guides on dslreports to use a custom router
with FiOS.
However, getting caller ID on settop boxes and other features I
haven't been able to do yet, it requires some advanced port forwarding
or something.
The only issue I have is some configuration bits in Actiontec are
lost on power cycle. That is why box is on UPS.
Dave Taht
2014-03-19 16:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frits Riep
I have a Verizon FIOS internet, and also use the interactive TV and phone
services using my WNDR-3800 with CeroWRT.
· I have a 75 Mb/s down / 25 Mb/s up residential service in
Lexington MA
· I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.
Oh, cool. I had figured the actiontec router was a hard requirement.
Post by Frits Riep
· To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV Coax in
order to control the settop box and send the video content from the internet
to the settop box.
· The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).
· http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
· D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this mode
(lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX to the WAN
interface of the router which is useful if you only have COAX wiring in your
home and you want to locate your router in a different location from the ONT
Ethernet jack.
Can you point us at a specific one?
Post by Frits Riep
· You need one MoCA bridge to interconnect the Coax to the standard
twisted pair Lan connection on your router.
· The working topology is Verizon ONT Ethernet port to WAN interface
on CeroWRT router, Moca Bridge in one of the LAN interfaces.
· Verizon residential service provides one public IP via DHCP, and
this IP is bound to the MAC address of the router (which is also typical of
residential services of cable providers such as Comcast).
· To successfully connect the new router (and get a DHCP address),
you need to either clone the MAC address of the Verizon supplied router or
call Verizon and have them break the DHCP lease from their end.
Good information, thank you. I had no idea you could toss the supplied
router out the door in verizon's case. They are not doing a very good
job of maintaining the firmware.
Post by Frits Riep
I have successfully been running versions of CeroWRT for about six months,
and very much appreciate the great work to conquer Bufferbloat.
I have had no issues on the WNDR-3800 getting full throughput of up to 80
mb/s down, 30 mb/s up using speedtest.net (with speed throttling off. The
throughput and latency results are excellent when I set the speed throttling
to 75 down / 25 up, per speedtest.net, pingtest.net and ICSI Netalyzr even
on wireless. Running a ping test in command prompt also shows very low
latency even when running a full speedtest both up and down on both a wired
or wireless connection.
Well, you are bottlenecked on the wireless side for speedtest. And netalyzr
can rarely achieve more than 20Mbit on anything. So some of your joy is
misplaced...

What I'd found from testing esr's verizon 25/25 connection was that only the
downlink needed some shaping. at 80/25 I imagine there's not a lot of
downlink buffering.
Post by Frits Riep
Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new stable in
the near future?
3.10.32-9 is in the "happens to be pretty stable" catagory, rather
than "intended to be stable". :/

We started shooting for a long-term stable build last august, I'd
hoped to have one by december, and then by mid-feburary...

We seem to be getting close! There are no priority 1 or 2 bugs left, churn
upstream is settling down as barrier breaker gets closer to a freeze, dnsmasq
w/dnssec is nearing a release.

Aside from a couple features I really wanted to have (bcp38, babeld in
procd), and a protocol I wanted to obsolete (ahcp replaced by hncp),
and a daemon I wanted to replace (mdns hybrid proxy in place of
avahi).

... it is long past time to draw a line and declare it done enough.

I think the biggest thing left to do is push the SQM system upstream to openwrt
for comment and revision.

I'd like to gateway a "stable" cerowrt 3.10 on barrier breaker itself
going into a freeze, but can live without that.

AFTER there's a stable release...

There is a ton of new work to do (if I care to think about it) with
the new hnetd (hncp) stuff, the mdnsproxy, hardening the OS further,
getting source specific routing to work better with vpns, finding a
higher end platform with more oomph, etc, but we have to go looking
for grant money to do any of that.
Frits Riep
2014-03-19 20:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Dave,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am personally using a D-Link DXN-220, and have
used it for over three years. I believe that the MoCA Alliance certifies
compliance with the standard and there is a newer higher speed standard MoCA
2.0, but the MoCA 1.1 products are plenty fast.

I am not bottlenecked on the wireless, as I am getting a 300 Mb/s link (raw
speed of connection) within about 30 ft of the router in my home using the 5
Ghz band, even through walls, and the Speedtest results are just as fast as
I get on a wired connection.

At our office we have a 30 mb/s down 30 mb/s up Verizon FIOS and we
certainly get bufferbloat on the download of Speedtest using a Sonicwall
TZ200 per the results below.

Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=107ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=85ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=251

On the Netalyzr results, while it only shows the speeds as greater than 20
mb/s, there are buffering results, and these are much better using CeroWRT
than using another router on this connection and as far as I can tell the
buffering numbers are valid and repeatable, so I do believe that bufferbloat
can be an issue even on 80 mb/s download connections.

If you add other heavy download traffic, like Netflix and Video on demand,
you can easily load up 10's of Mb/s even on a fast connection. I haven't
even run tests with such traffic running, but we do have multiple of such
streams at times. The Netflix in HD can use a lot of bandwidth when it is
available to it and it does. (This is on wireless using a Logitech Review
(Google TV android device).

I would like to suggest that it would be great to get to a new "stable" as
there has been a lot of progress since the last stable and some of the
issues being worked on now may not be used by many users for a long time
(IPv6 for example). My putting out a stable, you would have more users use
and benefit and get more feedback.

My other suggestion would be to consider simplifying the number of IP
subnets from like six or more with guest networks to a less intimidating
number. The setup looks pretty daunting to even relatively knowledgeable
installers. In my case, I needed to change the subnets and this was pretty
intense. Is there now way to control the bufferbloat on wireless and
maintain a bridged network (maybe filter out multicasts?)

When you are ready for a wider test it would be advantageous to simplify the
configuration for a wider audience.

Thanks again for the great work!

Frits

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Taht [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 12:18 PM
To: Frits Riep
Cc: cerowrt-***@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Verizon FIOS - How to use CeroWRT directly with
interactive TV
Post by Frits Riep
I have a Verizon FIOS internet, and also use the interactive TV and
phone services using my WNDR-3800 with CeroWRT.
. I have a 75 Mb/s down / 25 Mb/s up residential service in
Lexington MA
. I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.
Oh, cool. I had figured the actiontec router was a hard requirement.
Post by Frits Riep
. To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV
Coax in order to control the settop box and send the video content
from the internet to the settop box.
. The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).
. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
. D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this
mode (lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX
to the WAN interface of the router which is useful if you only have
COAX wiring in your home and you want to locate your router in a
different location from the ONT Ethernet jack.
Can you point us at a specific one?
Post by Frits Riep
. You need one MoCA bridge to interconnect the Coax to the standard
twisted pair Lan connection on your router.
. The working topology is Verizon ONT Ethernet port to WAN interface
on CeroWRT router, Moca Bridge in one of the LAN interfaces.
. Verizon residential service provides one public IP via DHCP, and
this IP is bound to the MAC address of the router (which is also
typical of residential services of cable providers such as Comcast).
. To successfully connect the new router (and get a DHCP address),
you need to either clone the MAC address of the Verizon supplied
router or call Verizon and have them break the DHCP lease from their end.
Good information, thank you. I had no idea you could toss the supplied
router out the door in verizon's case. They are not doing a very good job of
maintaining the firmware.
Post by Frits Riep
I have successfully been running versions of CeroWRT for about six
months, and very much appreciate the great work to conquer Bufferbloat.
I have had no issues on the WNDR-3800 getting full throughput of up to
80 mb/s down, 30 mb/s up using speedtest.net (with speed throttling
off. The throughput and latency results are excellent when I set the
speed throttling to 75 down / 25 up, per speedtest.net, pingtest.net
and ICSI Netalyzr even on wireless. Running a ping test in command
prompt also shows very low latency even when running a full speedtest
both up and down on both a wired or wireless connection.
Well, you are bottlenecked on the wireless side for speedtest. And netalyzr
can rarely achieve more than 20Mbit on anything. So some of your joy is
misplaced...

What I'd found from testing esr's verizon 25/25 connection was that only the
downlink needed some shaping. at 80/25 I imagine there's not a lot of
downlink buffering.
Post by Frits Riep
Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new
stable in the near future?
3.10.32-9 is in the "happens to be pretty stable" catagory, rather than
"intended to be stable". :/

We started shooting for a long-term stable build last august, I'd hoped to
have one by december, and then by mid-feburary...

We seem to be getting close! There are no priority 1 or 2 bugs left, churn
upstream is settling down as barrier breaker gets closer to a freeze,
dnsmasq w/dnssec is nearing a release.

Aside from a couple features I really wanted to have (bcp38, babeld in
procd), and a protocol I wanted to obsolete (ahcp replaced by hncp), and a
daemon I wanted to replace (mdns hybrid proxy in place of avahi).

... it is long past time to draw a line and declare it done enough.

I think the biggest thing left to do is push the SQM system upstream to
openwrt for comment and revision.

I'd like to gateway a "stable" cerowrt 3.10 on barrier breaker itself going
into a freeze, but can live without that.

AFTER there's a stable release...

There is a ton of new work to do (if I care to think about it) with the new
hnetd (hncp) stuff, the mdnsproxy, hardening the OS further, getting source
specific routing to work better with vpns, finding a higher end platform
with more oomph, etc, but we have to go looking for grant money to do any of
that.
Aristar
2014-03-19 20:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frits Riep
At our office we have a 30 mb/s down 30 mb/s up Verizon FIOS and we
certainly get bufferbloat on the download of Speedtest using a Sonicwall
TZ200 per the results below.
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=107ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=96ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=85ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=100ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=98ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=16ms TTL=251
Reply from 74.125.226.78: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=251
On the Netalyzr results, while it only shows the speeds as greater than 20
mb/s, there are buffering results, and these are much better using CeroWRT
than using another router on this connection and as far as I can tell the
buffering numbers are valid and repeatable, so I do believe that bufferbloat
can be an issue even on 80 mb/s download connections.
I think a lot of Verizon's network in general has some major
bufferbloat especially on their GPON or BPON hubs. I occasionally get
1000+ pings from my very first hop after my router.
Aristar
2014-03-19 20:15:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Taht
Post by Frits Riep
· I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.
Oh, cool. I had figured the actiontec router was a hard requirement.
Post by Frits Riep
· To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV Coax in
order to control the settop box and send the video content from the internet
to the settop box.
· The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).
· http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
· D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this mode
(lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX to the WAN
interface of the router which is useful if you only have COAX wiring in your
home and you want to locate your router in a different location from the ONT
Ethernet jack.
Can you point us at a specific one?
This is particularly interesting since Verizon will start charging an
equipment rental fee for their routers. (They've already started
offering a "improved" router for $100 which probably still sucks).
Would be nice to give them the middle finger and send their crappy
router back ^^
Post by Dave Taht
Post by Frits Riep
Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new stable in
the near future?
3.10.32-9 is in the "happens to be pretty stable" catagory, rather
than "intended to be stable". :/
We started shooting for a long-term stable build last august, I'd
hoped to have one by december, and then by mid-feburary...
We seem to be getting close! There are no priority 1 or 2 bugs left, churn
upstream is settling down as barrier breaker gets closer to a freeze, dnsmasq
w/dnssec is nearing a release.
Aside from a couple features I really wanted to have (bcp38, babeld in
procd), and a protocol I wanted to obsolete (ahcp replaced by hncp),
and a daemon I wanted to replace (mdns hybrid proxy in place of
avahi).
... it is long past time to draw a line and declare it done enough.
I think the biggest thing left to do is push the SQM system upstream to openwrt
for comment and revision.
I'd like to gateway a "stable" cerowrt 3.10 on barrier breaker itself
going into a freeze, but can live without that.
I'm very eagerly awaiting the next 3.10 stable release as well, I'm
afraid to upgrade the 3.7.5 on my FiOS gateway for fear of stability
issues (30+ days uptime no problems). I do a lot of online gaming and
I really appreciate all the work you guys do.
Post by Dave Taht
AFTER there's a stable release...
There is a ton of new work to do (if I care to think about it) with
the new hnetd (hncp) stuff, the mdnsproxy, hardening the OS further,
getting source specific routing to work better with vpns, finding a
higher end platform with more oomph, etc, but we have to go looking
for grant money to do any of that.
I'd really love to see dnscrypt-proxy included too, but I understand
there's more pressing work to be done.
Dave Taht
2014-03-20 06:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aristar
Post by Dave Taht
Post by Frits Riep
· I have an WNDR3800 running CeroWRT 3.10.24-8 and it is directly
connected to the ONT (Optical Network Terminator), and no Verizon Router.
Oh, cool. I had figured the actiontec router was a hard requirement.
Post by Frits Riep
· To get the interactive TV (guide, multi room dvr, and video on
demand) you need to bridge the ethernet LAN of the router to the TV Coax in
order to control the settop box and send the video content from the internet
to the settop box.
· The easiest way to bridge the Ethernet network to the Coax is to
use a MoCA bridge (Media Over Coax Alliance).
· http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance
· D-link, Actiontec, and Netgear offer these MoCA bridges and they
are under $100. You can run them with the factory defaults in this mode
(lan mode). There is also a WAN mode if you want to use the COAX to the WAN
interface of the router which is useful if you only have COAX wiring in your
home and you want to locate your router in a different location from the ONT
Ethernet jack.
Can you point us at a specific one?
This is particularly interesting since Verizon will start charging an
equipment rental fee for their routers. (They've already started
offering a "improved" router for $100 which probably still sucks).
Would be nice to give them the middle finger and send their crappy
router back ^^
That would be a start. Their routers aren't all that bad, when compared
to cpe provided by others. I'd hope, given their vendor, that they'd
start adopting some of this new stuff. In particular I keep hoping they'll
do ipv6....

I note that there will still be some way to get screwed on the rental fee.
I bought a bunch of CM822T modems and replaced the existing cable
modems for a bunch of boxes, and tried to return the old modems - only
to be told that even though telephony worked, they had no way to
"enter the info into the FCC database" and that if I returned the old
modems and stopped getting charged the rent they'd have to turn off
the telephony.

Mind boggling.

Still, I'd rather have good internet than bad, and maybe they will put
the extra 7 dollars a month to good use on improving their own
firmware.
Post by Aristar
Post by Dave Taht
Post by Frits Riep
Thanks for the great work being done. I am using this for our home network.
Should I update to the latest version 3.10.32-10 or is there a new stable in
the near future?
3.10.32-9 is in the "happens to be pretty stable" catagory, rather
than "intended to be stable". :/
We started shooting for a long-term stable build last august, I'd
hoped to have one by december, and then by mid-feburary...
We seem to be getting close! There are no priority 1 or 2 bugs left, churn
upstream is settling down as barrier breaker gets closer to a freeze, dnsmasq
w/dnssec is nearing a release.
Aside from a couple features I really wanted to have (bcp38, babeld in
procd), and a protocol I wanted to obsolete (ahcp replaced by hncp),
and a daemon I wanted to replace (mdns hybrid proxy in place of
avahi).
... it is long past time to draw a line and declare it done enough.
I think the biggest thing left to do is push the SQM system upstream to openwrt
for comment and revision.
I'd like to gateway a "stable" cerowrt 3.10 on barrier breaker itself
going into a freeze, but can live without that.
I'm very eagerly awaiting the next 3.10 stable release as well, I'm
afraid to upgrade the 3.7.5 on my FiOS gateway for fear of stability
issues (30+ days uptime no problems). I do a lot of online gaming and
I really appreciate all the work you guys do.
Well 3.10.32-9 and later are looking pretty good.
Post by Aristar
Post by Dave Taht
AFTER there's a stable release...
There is a ton of new work to do (if I care to think about it) with
the new hnetd (hncp) stuff, the mdnsproxy, hardening the OS further,
getting source specific routing to work better with vpns, finding a
higher end platform with more oomph, etc, but we have to go looking
for grant money to do any of that.
I'd really love to see dnscrypt-proxy included too, but I understand
there's more pressing work to be done.
There is seemingly no existing dnscrypt-proxy source package available
for openwrt. I'll gladly toss one into ceropackages if it can be found.
--
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
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